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01-28-2015, 09:52 PM,
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My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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My father was a gunsmith as well as avid collector and hunter all his life. I know he worked for a while at the Outdoor Sportsman on 120 in Waukegan if anyone remembers that old place. I grew up in a house full of firearms but I lost interest in it myself as a teenager. I’m sure that was a disappointment to him because my brother was the exact opposite and I know they bonded by hunting and shooting at the range. I've always believed in the 2nd amendment but it was more in theory than in practice.
I did buy my first pistol, a cheap Bryco Arms 380, back in the early 90s. It was something I wanted to keep in my apartment (just in case). I literally took that handgun to the range once, shot about 80 rounds, and then returned it to its box where it’s still sitting today. I didn’t even attempt to clean it until about a year ago.
I’ve been to the shooting range once or twice with my brother over the years but I never really considered buying my own firearm. There was always something else that I wanted/needed to spend my money on. That mentality changed for me shortly after the horrible event at Sandy Hook. I saw politicians pounce on that event. Not to actually address what happened but to push their own anti-gun agendas, well before all of the facts were out. It seemed that very few wanted to place blame on the sick individual that pulled the trigger.
We had Buckshot Biden who was quickly assigned to the case by his boss. Then we had others like ol’ Beady-Eyed Feinstein that was more worried about what type of plastic attachment may be connected to a rifle than really stopping gun violence. I was disgusted by the grandstanding and calls for a renewed ban on assault weapons. I heard some talk about mental illness and stricter background checks but most focused on implementing restrictions on law-abiding citizens. In my opinion, it should have been obvious that we need to hold people accountable for their actions and address mental health issues in our country.
For the last 20 years I’ve considered myself to be a Libertarian. I’ve worn that label proud even before it recently became trendy. I typically avoid voting for most Democrats and Republicans because I believe they are more interested in keeping the status quo rather than doing what is best for America. Maybe I’m biased but I honestly believe that their main goal is keep this a two party game and to lock out everyone else. Why else wouldn't you at least allow a 3rd party to partiicpate in the debates? There have been times where felt disenchanted and wanted to just sit out of an election but I eventually go in to vote. I do believe the control needs to be flipped upside-down. The Federal government should be out of the day to day lives of Americans and the power should be focused at the local level, where we would have greater accountability and a real chance for positive change in our communities.
As I mentioned earlier, my attitude about gun ownership changed a couple years ago. I still remember the day I recognized that our President was attempting to take advantage of the tragedy at Sandy Hook and turn it into an opportunity to advance his agenda. That day was 1/4/2013. I quickly submitted my application for the Illinois FOID card, joined the NRA, and then I began researching a new handgun.
By law, I should have received my FOID within 30 days. I checked the mail every day, looking for that magic card that is required for Illinois residents to purchase any firearm and ammo. 30 days came and went without any sign of my new card. At the 6 week mark, I unsuccessfully attempted to follow up with the Illinois State Police for a status update. They are required by law to process or deny FOID applications within 30 days. It was pretty much “Don’t call us, we’ll call you” and I became frustrated. I don’t blame the Illinois State Police. I’m sure that they didn’t ask to be the agency to process FOID requests, but that is the current law and I expected them to follow it. I finally decided to email an Illinois State Senator that I thought may be sympathetic to my situation. I quickly received a reply that they would have their office look into it and then my new FOID card appeared in my mailbox four days later.
Today I am the proud owner of six firearms (four pistols and two shotguns). I’ve already completed two classes through Red Dot Arms. I look forward to learning more, practicing a lot, and growing my collection over the years. I now believe that it is my responsibility and obligation as an American to exercise all of my constitutional rights. I love this country and I will no longer take those rights for granted. Thank you to all that have fought and sacrificed for my ability to do that. I truly appreciate it.
I did buy my first pistol, a cheap Bryco Arms 380, back in the early 90s. It was something I wanted to keep in my apartment (just in case). I literally took that handgun to the range once, shot about 80 rounds, and then returned it to its box where it’s still sitting today. I didn’t even attempt to clean it until about a year ago.
I’ve been to the shooting range once or twice with my brother over the years but I never really considered buying my own firearm. There was always something else that I wanted/needed to spend my money on. That mentality changed for me shortly after the horrible event at Sandy Hook. I saw politicians pounce on that event. Not to actually address what happened but to push their own anti-gun agendas, well before all of the facts were out. It seemed that very few wanted to place blame on the sick individual that pulled the trigger.
We had Buckshot Biden who was quickly assigned to the case by his boss. Then we had others like ol’ Beady-Eyed Feinstein that was more worried about what type of plastic attachment may be connected to a rifle than really stopping gun violence. I was disgusted by the grandstanding and calls for a renewed ban on assault weapons. I heard some talk about mental illness and stricter background checks but most focused on implementing restrictions on law-abiding citizens. In my opinion, it should have been obvious that we need to hold people accountable for their actions and address mental health issues in our country.
For the last 20 years I’ve considered myself to be a Libertarian. I’ve worn that label proud even before it recently became trendy. I typically avoid voting for most Democrats and Republicans because I believe they are more interested in keeping the status quo rather than doing what is best for America. Maybe I’m biased but I honestly believe that their main goal is keep this a two party game and to lock out everyone else. Why else wouldn't you at least allow a 3rd party to partiicpate in the debates? There have been times where felt disenchanted and wanted to just sit out of an election but I eventually go in to vote. I do believe the control needs to be flipped upside-down. The Federal government should be out of the day to day lives of Americans and the power should be focused at the local level, where we would have greater accountability and a real chance for positive change in our communities.
As I mentioned earlier, my attitude about gun ownership changed a couple years ago. I still remember the day I recognized that our President was attempting to take advantage of the tragedy at Sandy Hook and turn it into an opportunity to advance his agenda. That day was 1/4/2013. I quickly submitted my application for the Illinois FOID card, joined the NRA, and then I began researching a new handgun.
By law, I should have received my FOID within 30 days. I checked the mail every day, looking for that magic card that is required for Illinois residents to purchase any firearm and ammo. 30 days came and went without any sign of my new card. At the 6 week mark, I unsuccessfully attempted to follow up with the Illinois State Police for a status update. They are required by law to process or deny FOID applications within 30 days. It was pretty much “Don’t call us, we’ll call you” and I became frustrated. I don’t blame the Illinois State Police. I’m sure that they didn’t ask to be the agency to process FOID requests, but that is the current law and I expected them to follow it. I finally decided to email an Illinois State Senator that I thought may be sympathetic to my situation. I quickly received a reply that they would have their office look into it and then my new FOID card appeared in my mailbox four days later.
Today I am the proud owner of six firearms (four pistols and two shotguns). I’ve already completed two classes through Red Dot Arms. I look forward to learning more, practicing a lot, and growing my collection over the years. I now believe that it is my responsibility and obligation as an American to exercise all of my constitutional rights. I love this country and I will no longer take those rights for granted. Thank you to all that have fought and sacrificed for my ability to do that. I truly appreciate it.
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01-28-2015, 11:25 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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Wow, I could have written that.
Some differences, my dad was not into guns, but my mom's dad and all my cousins and uncles on that side are 4 generation back northern Wis. hunters, etc.
I never owned or shot a gun until after Sandy. It was my liberal sister's response to Sandy that set off my epiphany.
In those 2 years I have taken 5 classes at Red Dot, 1 at Gat Guns, MAG20 with Masad Ayoob, 1 at United Risk International, 1 at Legal Heat, 1 at OnTarget, and 1 with Col. David Grossman - about 110 hours total. I have been to 1 NRA Convention and 1 Gun Rights Policy Conference.
I have my Illinois CCW and Utah CC.
And my wife has been beside me for all of it. She never owned a gun before either.
We have 6 pistols combined, 1 shotgun, and 1 rifle.
The three of use are part of the new guard, or rather the better late than never guard. 
Some differences, my dad was not into guns, but my mom's dad and all my cousins and uncles on that side are 4 generation back northern Wis. hunters, etc.
I never owned or shot a gun until after Sandy. It was my liberal sister's response to Sandy that set off my epiphany.
In those 2 years I have taken 5 classes at Red Dot, 1 at Gat Guns, MAG20 with Masad Ayoob, 1 at United Risk International, 1 at Legal Heat, 1 at OnTarget, and 1 with Col. David Grossman - about 110 hours total. I have been to 1 NRA Convention and 1 Gun Rights Policy Conference.
I have my Illinois CCW and Utah CC.
And my wife has been beside me for all of it. She never owned a gun before either.
We have 6 pistols combined, 1 shotgun, and 1 rifle.
The three of use are part of the new guard, or rather the better late than never guard.
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01-29-2015, 10:46 AM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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I like your comment on being Libertarian. While I don't agree with all points coming from our Libertarian candidates, it is a sound stance that I consider "in the middle". I too am frustrated that the media doesn't allow third parties into the debate. If they did, I think many Americans would have a "WOW!" moment, and realize that they could vote Independent or Libertarian and voice their opinions. Instead, all I hear is I'm wasting my vote....too bad.
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01-29-2015, 02:46 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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I consider myself a Libertarian. I don't care what designer drugs you want, I prefer designer Scotch, and I like mine on the rocks. I don't care if you want to sleep with your dog, just don't force me to watch. I am a fiscal Nazi. Spending a future generations earnings is not the answer. We need a balanced budget. Socialism is not the answer. Robbing one group, and then splitting up the loot amongst those that vote for you is just plain wrong. Let people keep what they EARN.
Monopolies are NEVER good for consumers, and STATE run Monopolies are the worst possible thing for all concerned. We need government out of almost all services. Education, Banking, Mortgage, Auto's, Insurance, Medical Care, Food. etc. Before FDR, the government was less than 8% of GDP, today it is 24% of GDP. The income tax effected so few people, Al Capone, didn't even know it existed.
Libertarian is the party that I feel fits me best, but I tend to vote Republican, cause I feel they can actually win.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
Monopolies are NEVER good for consumers, and STATE run Monopolies are the worst possible thing for all concerned. We need government out of almost all services. Education, Banking, Mortgage, Auto's, Insurance, Medical Care, Food. etc. Before FDR, the government was less than 8% of GDP, today it is 24% of GDP. The income tax effected so few people, Al Capone, didn't even know it existed.
Libertarian is the party that I feel fits me best, but I tend to vote Republican, cause I feel they can actually win.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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01-29-2015, 04:24 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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The problem with libertarian candidates is they invariably say something absurd.
Much like Lyndon LaRouche. I don't remember what he called himself, but the first time I heard him I was thrilled someone finally said the things he was saying until he claimed the Queen of England was dealing drugs in the U.S.
My cousin, who is a regular candidate for state house in MN ("regular" as in he never wins), is libertarian. Again, a lot of good things until he says George Bush knocked down the twin towers.
I always end up thinking with all of them, "Now why did you have to go and say that?"
Much like Lyndon LaRouche. I don't remember what he called himself, but the first time I heard him I was thrilled someone finally said the things he was saying until he claimed the Queen of England was dealing drugs in the U.S.
My cousin, who is a regular candidate for state house in MN ("regular" as in he never wins), is libertarian. Again, a lot of good things until he says George Bush knocked down the twin towers.
I always end up thinking with all of them, "Now why did you have to go and say that?"
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01-29-2015, 07:53 PM,
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2015, 08:52 PM by doubleCheese.)
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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01-29-2015, 07:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2015, 08:52 PM by doubleCheese.)
I agree a lot of the Libertarian candidates seem like a joke. I'm guessing it's because the 3rd parties don't have a real chance to win national elections so you are left with the fringe that are willing to run for office. I believe in the basic principles of Personal Freedom and Personal Responsibility so I will usually vote Libertarian, even if it's just a symbolic gesture. If not, I will still closely look at their records on the 2nd amendment and our rights in general. I don’t need the government to take care of me and I don’t care what adults do in their own home, just as long as they are respecting the rights of others. Don’t hurt me and I won’t hurt you.
As far as the theory about George Bush goes, that sort of talk isn’t going to win any elections. I don’t believe it myself although I will say that just as Obama attempted to take advantage of Sandy Hook to advance his anti-gun agenda, I do believe that Bush took advantage of 9/11 to advance his own agenda in Iraq. I think Bush was still angry that Saddam wanted to assassinate his daddy. I’m only half kidding on that but I can’t believe that he really thought Iraq was our biggest threat. Not more than North Korea or a few other spots on the globe.
@Dutz: Count my wife in the ranks of the Better Late Than Never Guard. She has never owned a firearm either and the first time she ever shot was the one time I took my 380 to the range almost 20 years ago. We applied for our FOIDs and joined the NRA together. She's onboard with me and agrees that it's our obligation as Americans to exercise our 2nd amendment right. The second time my wife ever shot a pistol was during our Red Dot Arms class a couple weeks ago. I'm proud to say she aced it. I know she was waaaay more accurate than I was at the range. It was amazing to see how quickly she picked up on the instructions. That's exactly why we decided to complete a training class before we formed any bad habits. If anyone ever breaks into our home, I'm going to let her handle it. I might miss.
As far as the theory about George Bush goes, that sort of talk isn’t going to win any elections. I don’t believe it myself although I will say that just as Obama attempted to take advantage of Sandy Hook to advance his anti-gun agenda, I do believe that Bush took advantage of 9/11 to advance his own agenda in Iraq. I think Bush was still angry that Saddam wanted to assassinate his daddy. I’m only half kidding on that but I can’t believe that he really thought Iraq was our biggest threat. Not more than North Korea or a few other spots on the globe.
@Dutz: Count my wife in the ranks of the Better Late Than Never Guard. She has never owned a firearm either and the first time she ever shot was the one time I took my 380 to the range almost 20 years ago. We applied for our FOIDs and joined the NRA together. She's onboard with me and agrees that it's our obligation as Americans to exercise our 2nd amendment right. The second time my wife ever shot a pistol was during our Red Dot Arms class a couple weeks ago. I'm proud to say she aced it. I know she was waaaay more accurate than I was at the range. It was amazing to see how quickly she picked up on the instructions. That's exactly why we decided to complete a training class before we formed any bad habits. If anyone ever breaks into our home, I'm going to let her handle it. I might miss.
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01-29-2015, 08:20 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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SO VERY COOL!!!
I usually can shut the "bush Vs twin tower" argument quickly.
The government couldn't be responsible to take the towers down, IT WORKED.
I usually can shut the "bush Vs twin tower" argument quickly.
The government couldn't be responsible to take the towers down, IT WORKED.
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01-29-2015, 11:06 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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(01-29-2015, 07:53 PM)doubleCheese Wrote: I do believe that Bush took advantage of 9/11 to advance his own agenda in Iraq. I think Bush was still angry that Saddam wanted to assassinate his daddy. I’m only half kidding on that but I can’t believe that he really thought Iraq was our biggest threat.
Taking down Saddam was the only way to start the war on terror. He provided the resources, money, and training facilities. Not to mention he had the only real "army" which although not a threat to us the on the ground terrorists didn't know that.
In fact taking out Saddam was actually brilliant as well as necessary.
As far as WMD's, no, what he had was not a threat to us per se', but YES he had them. We know that because we had pictures of him driving them to Lybia, and when we threatened Gaddafi with more bombing he GAVE THEM TO US. So yeah, Saddam had them. Not to mention WE FOUND THEM SINCE in Iraq.
(01-29-2015, 07:53 PM)doubleCheese Wrote: I do believe that Bush took advantage of 9/11 to advance his own agenda in Iraq. I think Bush was still angry that Saddam wanted to assassinate his daddy. I’m only half kidding on that but I can’t believe that he really thought Iraq was our biggest threat.
Taking down Saddam was the only way to start the war on terror. He provided the resources, money, and training facilities. Not to mention he had the only real "army" which although not a threat to us the on the ground terrorists didn't know that.
In fact taking out Saddam was actually brilliant as well as necessary.
As far as WMD's, no, what he had was not a threat to us per se', but YES he had them. We know that because we had pictures of him driving them to Lybia, and when we threatened Gaddafi with more bombing he GAVE THEM TO US. So yeah, Saddam had them. Not to mention WE FOUND THEM SINCE in Iraq.
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01-29-2015, 11:39 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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I'm sure Saddam had the WMD. We actually found some of them. Besides Saddam killed over 600,000 of his own people, getting rid of him was a public service. Our problem is we tried nation building, expensive and prone to fail. We should have went in, cleaned house and then left as quickly as we came. Let them sort out their own issues after we leave. Same for Afghanistan. Just let the Taliban know, that if they take over, after we leave, we will continue to take out their leadership via airpower. There is something to be said for a massive B-52 carpet bombing attack.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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01-30-2015, 07:47 AM,
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015, 08:09 AM by doubleCheese.)
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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01-30-2015, 07:47 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015, 08:09 AM by doubleCheese.)
Don't get me wrong. I agree Saddam was bad news. He was known to possess WMD and use them. I believe he should have been taken out after Kuwait. When the coalition didn’t do it, the United States should have stood with or at least supported the Kurds if no one else. I think that would have been the right thing to do. I know it’s easy for me to second guess now. In my honest opinion, the Bush administration used our country’s anger after 9/11 to move on Iraq to establish a new government. We were justified to go into Afghanistan but I still question the motive, plan, and timing for Iraq in 2003.
NOTE TO MODS: I don’t want to get off topic in the 2nd Amendment area. Should we start a new topic in the General Politics section? I appreciate the open discussion.
NOTE TO MODS: I don’t want to get off topic in the 2nd Amendment area. Should we start a new topic in the General Politics section? I appreciate the open discussion.
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01-30-2015, 08:57 AM,
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015, 08:59 AM by Dutz.)
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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01-30-2015, 08:57 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015, 08:59 AM by Dutz.)
I don't think a new government was his intention. I think he knew something was needed once Saddam was gone or it would become another Iran.
I think Bush would have stayed far away from nation building if he thought he could.
As far as using "our country’s anger after 9/11 to move on Iraq", in the words of Col. Nathan R. Jessup, a.k.a Jack Nicholson, "You're ***damn right I did"
And the world and the U.S. are far better off for it.
It had been 13 years since we had a president the world respected and in some ways feared. You can make a good argument 9/11 was a direct result of not taking out Saddam the first time. We don't realize what little information your average citizen and average terrorist get over there. As far as they were concerned the U.S. lost the first Gulf war.
Bush's message was loud and clear. "My daddy is from Maine, I'm from Texas, get the difference?"
Bush was right. The "bad" results you are seeing are Obama's failure in handling the last stages. Regardless of what government formed in Iraq or any "nation building" that would or would not occur what we needed was a post WW II style military base presence like Germany and Japan. And it needed to be open-ended, i.e. permanent.
Had we done that, this would have turned and continue to turn out much better.
I think Bush would have stayed far away from nation building if he thought he could.
As far as using "our country’s anger after 9/11 to move on Iraq", in the words of Col. Nathan R. Jessup, a.k.a Jack Nicholson, "You're ***damn right I did"
And the world and the U.S. are far better off for it.
It had been 13 years since we had a president the world respected and in some ways feared. You can make a good argument 9/11 was a direct result of not taking out Saddam the first time. We don't realize what little information your average citizen and average terrorist get over there. As far as they were concerned the U.S. lost the first Gulf war.
Bush's message was loud and clear. "My daddy is from Maine, I'm from Texas, get the difference?"
Bush was right. The "bad" results you are seeing are Obama's failure in handling the last stages. Regardless of what government formed in Iraq or any "nation building" that would or would not occur what we needed was a post WW II style military base presence like Germany and Japan. And it needed to be open-ended, i.e. permanent.
Had we done that, this would have turned and continue to turn out much better.
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01-30-2015, 05:42 PM,
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015, 05:43 PM by rwhite135.)
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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01-30-2015, 05:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015, 05:43 PM by rwhite135.)
(01-30-2015, 08:57 AM)Dutz Wrote: I don't think a new government was his intention. I think he knew something was needed once Saddam was gone or it would become another Iran.
I think Bush would have stayed far away from nation building if he thought he could.
As far as using "our country’s anger after 9/11 to move on Iraq", in the words of Col. Nathan R. Jessup, a.k.a Jack Nicholson, "You're ***damn right I did"
And the world and the U.S. are far better off for it.
It had been 13 years since we had a president the world respected and in some ways feared. You can make a good argument 9/11 was a direct result of not taking out Saddam the first time. We don't realize what little information your average citizen and average terrorist get over there. As far as they were concerned the U.S. lost the first Gulf war.
Bush's message was loud and clear. "My daddy is from Maine, I'm from Texas, get the difference?"
Bush was right. The "bad" results you are seeing are Obama's failure in handling the last stages. Regardless of what government formed in Iraq or any "nation building" that would or would not occur what we needed was a post WW II style military base presence like Germany and Japan. And it needed to be open-ended, i.e. permanent.
Had we done that, this would have turned and continue to turn out much better.
I agree, Dutz, and would add that the Iraq situation is a direct result of Obama trying to follow the same system that was used in Vietnam, ie trying to run things from Washington and disregarding his field commanders. That led to the pull out that the field commanders, who were seeing the situation on the ground, told him would be a disaster. They were right and he was wrong. Of course Obozo tries to blame it on a treaty that Bush was supposed to be responsible for that was never actually official as the Senate never voted to ratify it. See a trend here?
(01-30-2015, 08:57 AM)Dutz Wrote: I don't think a new government was his intention. I think he knew something was needed once Saddam was gone or it would become another Iran.
I think Bush would have stayed far away from nation building if he thought he could.
As far as using "our country’s anger after 9/11 to move on Iraq", in the words of Col. Nathan R. Jessup, a.k.a Jack Nicholson, "You're ***damn right I did"
And the world and the U.S. are far better off for it.
It had been 13 years since we had a president the world respected and in some ways feared. You can make a good argument 9/11 was a direct result of not taking out Saddam the first time. We don't realize what little information your average citizen and average terrorist get over there. As far as they were concerned the U.S. lost the first Gulf war.
Bush's message was loud and clear. "My daddy is from Maine, I'm from Texas, get the difference?"
Bush was right. The "bad" results you are seeing are Obama's failure in handling the last stages. Regardless of what government formed in Iraq or any "nation building" that would or would not occur what we needed was a post WW II style military base presence like Germany and Japan. And it needed to be open-ended, i.e. permanent.
Had we done that, this would have turned and continue to turn out much better.
I agree, Dutz, and would add that the Iraq situation is a direct result of Obama trying to follow the same system that was used in Vietnam, ie trying to run things from Washington and disregarding his field commanders. That led to the pull out that the field commanders, who were seeing the situation on the ground, told him would be a disaster. They were right and he was wrong. Of course Obozo tries to blame it on a treaty that Bush was supposed to be responsible for that was never actually official as the Senate never voted to ratify it. See a trend here?
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01-31-2015, 10:43 AM,
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2015, 12:58 PM by doubleCheese.)
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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01-31-2015, 10:43 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2015, 12:58 PM by doubleCheese.)
To all that have responded (and especially Dutz), I just want to thank you for making this a civil discussion. I enjoy discussing sensitive topics (e.g religion & politics) with other people and I believe it can be very beneficial to have those discussions with people that don’t agree with you 100%. In this case I think we actually agree more than we disagree. Related to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, my two sticking points are:
1.) The reason(s) why Iraq was invaded. (although I admit that I am biased and my opinion is speculation)
2.) Is the World safer as a result? (I can see both sides of this argument but the current chaos make me believe that we are not)
I’m not making this post today to belabor those points. I really just wanted to follow up to thank you for having an open discussion with me. I’m new to this forum and you don’t know me. I’ve been on some other forums where the first response to a difference of opinion was often mean spirited. That behavior hasn’t happened here and I respect the RDA Forum and members for that.
The opinions I’ve read here so far have sparked my interest. Last night I decided to explore this topic with my friends and family on Facebook. I know, it was a bad idea but I was curious. Their politics range from the far Left to the far Right and everything in-between. Most of them make me look like a moderate so I had the feeling it would spark disagreements. I’ve known lot of them for years if not most of my life so I thought they would at least be respectful to the other people I know. I didn’t even begin with the hard stuff. I just posted a simple question and asked for a Yes or No response to start with. I figured I’d expand the discussion later if things got rolling. Within an hour the responses broke down into something ugly. I had to unfriend one guy that started name calling and just unwarranted attacks on my other friends and family with different opinions. It really disappointed me but it was a good opportunity to clean house.
Again, I just want to thank you for doing something my own so-called “friends” couldn’t do. Provide a venue for people to give opinions and receive opinions without resorting to personal attacks.
1.) The reason(s) why Iraq was invaded. (although I admit that I am biased and my opinion is speculation)
2.) Is the World safer as a result? (I can see both sides of this argument but the current chaos make me believe that we are not)
I’m not making this post today to belabor those points. I really just wanted to follow up to thank you for having an open discussion with me. I’m new to this forum and you don’t know me. I’ve been on some other forums where the first response to a difference of opinion was often mean spirited. That behavior hasn’t happened here and I respect the RDA Forum and members for that.
The opinions I’ve read here so far have sparked my interest. Last night I decided to explore this topic with my friends and family on Facebook. I know, it was a bad idea but I was curious. Their politics range from the far Left to the far Right and everything in-between. Most of them make me look like a moderate so I had the feeling it would spark disagreements. I’ve known lot of them for years if not most of my life so I thought they would at least be respectful to the other people I know. I didn’t even begin with the hard stuff. I just posted a simple question and asked for a Yes or No response to start with. I figured I’d expand the discussion later if things got rolling. Within an hour the responses broke down into something ugly. I had to unfriend one guy that started name calling and just unwarranted attacks on my other friends and family with different opinions. It really disappointed me but it was a good opportunity to clean house.
Again, I just want to thank you for doing something my own so-called “friends” couldn’t do. Provide a venue for people to give opinions and receive opinions without resorting to personal attacks.
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01-31-2015, 12:11 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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Welp, I think we are safer. ISIS is no more brutal than Saddam. ISIS is certainly a lot weaker militarily than Saddam was. I totally agree that Obama bungled the exit from Iraq, hasn't a clue how to exit Afghanistan, and his Syrian policy is a complete disaster. Don't even get me started on Obama's incompetence in dealing with Iran, or selling out Israel.
Personal attacks never accomplish anything. Going over past history doesn't change much either. One of the real issues I see that has changed in America, is simply this. Decades ago, if you attacked America, there would be a unified response, right or wrong the people that attacked us were going have a big problem. Today, the US does not stand unified. The great divider-n-chief has seen to that. Today you can attack America and we look weak. We cannot even call Muslim extremists terrorists.
Christians today, need to practice what Muslims are doing. Make them convert to Christianity. Tax them. Make them live under Christian law. Blasphem against Christ or the Church and be killed. Destroy their Mosques and arrest anyone going to one.
Practice eye for an eye justice.
The Popes of old had crusades to protect Christians. Does the song "Onward Christian Soldiers" ring a bell?
The real question is what to do moving forward. Does anyone have any faith at all that the village idiot in the White House now has a clue?
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
Personal attacks never accomplish anything. Going over past history doesn't change much either. One of the real issues I see that has changed in America, is simply this. Decades ago, if you attacked America, there would be a unified response, right or wrong the people that attacked us were going have a big problem. Today, the US does not stand unified. The great divider-n-chief has seen to that. Today you can attack America and we look weak. We cannot even call Muslim extremists terrorists.
Christians today, need to practice what Muslims are doing. Make them convert to Christianity. Tax them. Make them live under Christian law. Blasphem against Christ or the Church and be killed. Destroy their Mosques and arrest anyone going to one.
Practice eye for an eye justice.
The Popes of old had crusades to protect Christians. Does the song "Onward Christian Soldiers" ring a bell?
The real question is what to do moving forward. Does anyone have any faith at all that the village idiot in the White House now has a clue?
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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01-31-2015, 05:44 PM,
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2015, 05:52 PM by rwhite135.)
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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01-31-2015, 05:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2015, 05:52 PM by rwhite135.)
It's not that he doesn't have a clue so much as he has an agenda. Remember during the 2008 campaign, what did he keep saying? "We are going to fundamentally change the United States of America." He reiterated that on the eve of election day saying, "We are 24 hours away from fundamentally changing the United States of America." This should have sent red flags up with the majority of this country's population but it didn't seem to do so. A lot of the blame can be placed on media sources and social media. Looking at his statements and history nothing he has done should really surprise anyone. It was all there if you dig deep enough. He has deep Muslim connections and deep communist connections. The grandmother he claims raised him went to a church in Hawaii called the Little Red Church. That was a communist church hence its name. His mentor Frank Marshall Davis, some conspiracy theorists claim he was actually his father, was an avowed communist. He attended school at a Muslim Madrasa in Indonesia. The church he supposedly attended in Chicago was pastored by a guy who routinely spouted anti-American sentiment and Obama claims him as his biggest spiritual, not religious, guide. While he may be the worst president in this country's history, from his ideological stand point in getting his agenda in place he might be one of the most successful. Who can say that this country has not been transformed under Obama?
As far as doing to the Muslims what they do to us, I'm onboard with you. These animals only understand one thing, FEAR! If you want to beat them you have to make them more afraid of you than you are of them. If they kill 10 people with a suicide vest, you kill 100. If they kill 100 you destroy a town. They destroy a skyscraper, you destroy a country and you don't rebuild it. War is Hell, make them live it.
P.S. You're welcome doubleCheese. As you say it's not often you can have this type of discussion without it turning nasty in the age we're in now.
As far as doing to the Muslims what they do to us, I'm onboard with you. These animals only understand one thing, FEAR! If you want to beat them you have to make them more afraid of you than you are of them. If they kill 10 people with a suicide vest, you kill 100. If they kill 100 you destroy a town. They destroy a skyscraper, you destroy a country and you don't rebuild it. War is Hell, make them live it.
P.S. You're welcome doubleCheese. As you say it's not often you can have this type of discussion without it turning nasty in the age we're in now.
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01-31-2015, 06:00 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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I guess I go from you kill 10 American, I target 10 cities with 20 megatons each...
I would not escalate slowly. You want war, it's total WAR. Until either you surrender or you are eliminated completely. If they want a religious war, I can do that too. I would just target the top 10 holy cities, starting with Mecca.
We had to drop two bombs on Japan, the last fanatics we faced, and they got the message and surrendered. I consider Muslims to be dopes, it might take 20-30 bombs before they surrendered...
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
I would not escalate slowly. You want war, it's total WAR. Until either you surrender or you are eliminated completely. If they want a religious war, I can do that too. I would just target the top 10 holy cities, starting with Mecca.
We had to drop two bombs on Japan, the last fanatics we faced, and they got the message and surrendered. I consider Muslims to be dopes, it might take 20-30 bombs before they surrendered...
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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01-31-2015, 06:09 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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I've told my kids many times that we should turn the place into a sheet of glass so no arguments from me. I've also told them that if the Iranians want a nuke so bad we should air mail them a few.
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01-31-2015, 06:22 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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If I were the Israeli's I'd nuke their reactors. Then I'd go on the media, telling them we tried to warn them not to play with stuff they don't understand, and now look they blew themselves up!
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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01-31-2015, 07:09 PM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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The problem is that if the Israelis did it it would throw gas on what is already turning into a blaze over there. If we did it the Israelis would have a little breathing room still. The Pakistanis may not release nukes for use on us but would they be in that same position when it comes to Israel if they attacked a Muslim country with theirs? Plus what the Israelis have is more of the tactical variety and wouldn't be as much fun as an ICBM or a salvo from a nuclear missile sub parked off Iran's coast. It would show the Iranians, that while they want to saber rattle and say they can hit our coast, that we actually can hit theirs, as well as Tehran, if we wanted.
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02-01-2015, 11:52 AM,
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RE: My (long winded) rant and change of attitude about the 2nd amendment
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(01-28-2015, 09:52 PM)doubleCheese Wrote: FOID card
What sucks is that you have to have a FOID to begin with. Oregon maybe liberal to a point but that FOID thing would PI$$ ME OFF!
I left California in 1994 and at that time was it was already in heading in the wrong direction. A friend of mine said to me as I left, Well, lets see how long you last up there with all those liberals...you'll be BACK! Guess what I WON'T.
For the most part we has a few counties here that are Liberal but the rest are RED! The bad side of that is that the most populated counties/cities are blue. The good side is that although we are ruled by DEMONCRATS most of them love their guns.
(01-28-2015, 09:52 PM)doubleCheese Wrote: FOID card
What sucks is that you have to have a FOID to begin with. Oregon maybe liberal to a point but that FOID thing would PI$$ ME OFF!
I left California in 1994 and at that time was it was already in heading in the wrong direction. A friend of mine said to me as I left, Well, lets see how long you last up there with all those liberals...you'll be BACK! Guess what I WON'T.
For the most part we has a few counties here that are Liberal but the rest are RED! The bad side of that is that the most populated counties/cities are blue. The good side is that although we are ruled by DEMONCRATS most of them love their guns.
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