|
08-18-2015, 08:08 AM,
|
|
|
Posts: 346
Threads: 295
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation:
0
|
|
Backcountry Shooters Acting Like the Occupy Wall Street Unclean
Posts: 346
Threads: 295
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation:
0
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/us/a-c....html?_r=0
|
|
|
Find
|
08-18-2015, 09:17 AM,
|
|
|
Posts: 2,382
Threads: 376
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation:
1
|
|
RE: Backcountry Shooters Acting Like the Occupy Wall Street Unclean
Posts: 2,382
Threads: 376
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation:
1
(08-18-2015, 08:08 AM)StJude Wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/us/a-c....html?_r=0
Unfortunately I have seen evidence of this where I live. I have always clean up my remains and always follow the rules of safety but many up here do not. There have been more than one occasion where I have had to get a little...you might say...a$$holish...to a few groups for doing exactly what this article says. They bring up their garbage and leave the debris. This is why, up here at least, the sections of the lands that are owned by the timber outfits such as Roseburg Forest Products have choosen to lock all gates to and from.
(08-18-2015, 08:08 AM)StJude Wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/us/a-c....html?_r=0
Unfortunately I have seen evidence of this where I live. I have always clean up my remains and always follow the rules of safety but many up here do not. There have been more than one occasion where I have had to get a little...you might say...a$$holish...to a few groups for doing exactly what this article says. They bring up their garbage and leave the debris. This is why, up here at least, the sections of the lands that are owned by the timber outfits such as Roseburg Forest Products have choosen to lock all gates to and from.
|
|
|
Find
|
08-18-2015, 11:29 AM,
|
|
|
Posts: 2,216
Threads: 124
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation:
8
|
|
RE: Backcountry Shooters Acting Like the Occupy Wall Street Unclean
Posts: 2,216
Threads: 124
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation:
8
(08-18-2015, 09:17 AM)bradberry Wrote: (08-18-2015, 08:08 AM)StJude Wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/us/a-c....html?_r=0
Unfortunately I have seen evidence of this where I live. I have always clean up my remains and always follow the rules of safety but many up here do not. There have been more than one occasion where I have had to get a little...you might say...a$$holish...to a few groups for doing exactly what this article says. They bring up their garbage and leave the debris. This is why, up here at least, the sections of the lands that are owned by the timber outfits such as Roseburg Forest Products have choosen to lock all gates to and from.
I can understand banning shooting in Public National Parks. But public land, NO WAY. States like Nevada are 92% government owned land. Shooters have a responsibility to clean up after themselves as well. Shooter should always OBEY all gun safety rules. Know your target, and what is beyond it. Shooters have just as much right to use public land as anyone else, but they are RESPONSIBLE for their actions. Far more people are killed by bicycles on public land than any other cause do we ban them?
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
(08-18-2015, 09:17 AM)bradberry Wrote: (08-18-2015, 08:08 AM)StJude Wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/us/a-c....html?_r=0
Unfortunately I have seen evidence of this where I live. I have always clean up my remains and always follow the rules of safety but many up here do not. There have been more than one occasion where I have had to get a little...you might say...a$$holish...to a few groups for doing exactly what this article says. They bring up their garbage and leave the debris. This is why, up here at least, the sections of the lands that are owned by the timber outfits such as Roseburg Forest Products have choosen to lock all gates to and from.
I can understand banning shooting in Public National Parks. But public land, NO WAY. States like Nevada are 92% government owned land. Shooters have a responsibility to clean up after themselves as well. Shooter should always OBEY all gun safety rules. Know your target, and what is beyond it. Shooters have just as much right to use public land as anyone else, but they are RESPONSIBLE for their actions. Far more people are killed by bicycles on public land than any other cause do we ban them?
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
|
|
|
Find
|
08-18-2015, 01:18 PM,
|
|
|
Posts: 1,110
Threads: 82
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation:
3
|
|
RE: Backcountry Shooters Acting Like the Occupy Wall Street Unclean
Posts: 1,110
Threads: 82
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation:
3
(08-18-2015, 09:17 AM)bradberry Wrote: (08-18-2015, 08:08 AM)StJude Wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/us/a-c....html?_r=0
Unfortunately I have seen evidence of this where I live. I have always clean up my remains and always follow the rules of safety but many up here do not. There have been more than one occasion where I have had to get a little...you might say...a$$holish...to a few groups for doing exactly what this article says. They bring up their garbage and leave the debris. This is why, up here at least, the sections of the lands that are owned by the timber outfits such as Roseburg Forest Products have choosen to lock all gates to and from.
In Maine too, a lot of 'public' land is really privately owned and the landowners have allowed people access but they are stopping because of issues with trash and destruction.
(08-18-2015, 09:17 AM)bradberry Wrote: (08-18-2015, 08:08 AM)StJude Wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/us/a-c....html?_r=0
Unfortunately I have seen evidence of this where I live. I have always clean up my remains and always follow the rules of safety but many up here do not. There have been more than one occasion where I have had to get a little...you might say...a$$holish...to a few groups for doing exactly what this article says. They bring up their garbage and leave the debris. This is why, up here at least, the sections of the lands that are owned by the timber outfits such as Roseburg Forest Products have choosen to lock all gates to and from.
In Maine too, a lot of 'public' land is really privately owned and the landowners have allowed people access but they are stopping because of issues with trash and destruction.
|
|
|
Find
|
08-19-2015, 08:34 AM,
|
|
|
Posts: 1,393
Threads: 79
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation:
2
|
|
RE: Backcountry Shooters Acting Like the Occupy Wall Street Unclean
Posts: 1,393
Threads: 79
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation:
2
I think I have a unique perspective given I spend considerable amount of time with both groups. I do backpacking/trekking with tree huggers and shooting with guys like you.
As expected an article published at the New York Times is riddled with vague and misleading statements and lacks good, if any real research.
First, in 2011 the National Park Service did what they should have done all along regarding firearms - left it up to the states. You cannot hunt or do recreational shooting in a National Park, otherwise you must follow the laws, i.e. open/conceal carry of the state you are in. That can be different in different parts of the park if the park spans more than one state.
Also, you cannot mountain bike, four wheel drive, etc. You also carry out what you carry in, i.e. leave no trace behind. If you are in the Grand Canyon you even have to carry out your poop. If you are stopped by a park ranger he/she make actually asked to see your poop container to make sure you have enough for how many ever days you have been there. There is a reason for this. The parks are designed to be "parks". Kept wild so everyone can come see the wild untouched.
The National Forests and National Widerness areas are different. Read the difference here : http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/np-versus-nf.htm
Excerpt :
"National parks emphasize strict preservation of pristine areas. They focus on protecting natural and historic resources "unimpaired for future generations." Park rangers work for the National Park Service (NPS) under the Department of Interior.
National forests, on the other hand, emphasize not only resource preservation, but other kinds of use as well. Under this concept of "multiple use," national forests are managed to provide Americans with a wide variety of services and commodities, including lumber, cattle grazing, mineral products and recreation with and without vehicles. The national forests are managed by forest rangers with the US Forest Service (USFS) under the Department of Agriculture."
The point of saying that is this - the article tries to imply we gun owners are driving motor cycles around kids camping and shooting like a bunch of drunken cowboys.
The person who said this does not belong in a national forest.
“Every time in the woods, you feared for your life,” he said. “It was absolutely, completely out of hand.”
No, it was not out of hand, you were in the wrong place. National forests are for serious and experienced backcountry users. They know every minute there are dangers, including hunters and other firearm users, and you are on your own.
Are there people abusing the firearm usage rules and laws, yes. There were also 1,126 shooting warnings and citations issued. There are more shootings in Chicago alone this year and more murders in Chicago and D.C. than actual shootings in the forests.
You are much safer in a National Forest than Chicago.
As expected an article published at the New York Times is riddled with vague and misleading statements and lacks good, if any real research.
First, in 2011 the National Park Service did what they should have done all along regarding firearms - left it up to the states. You cannot hunt or do recreational shooting in a National Park, otherwise you must follow the laws, i.e. open/conceal carry of the state you are in. That can be different in different parts of the park if the park spans more than one state.
Also, you cannot mountain bike, four wheel drive, etc. You also carry out what you carry in, i.e. leave no trace behind. If you are in the Grand Canyon you even have to carry out your poop. If you are stopped by a park ranger he/she make actually asked to see your poop container to make sure you have enough for how many ever days you have been there. There is a reason for this. The parks are designed to be "parks". Kept wild so everyone can come see the wild untouched.
The National Forests and National Widerness areas are different. Read the difference here : http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/np-versus-nf.htm
Excerpt :
"National parks emphasize strict preservation of pristine areas. They focus on protecting natural and historic resources "unimpaired for future generations." Park rangers work for the National Park Service (NPS) under the Department of Interior.
National forests, on the other hand, emphasize not only resource preservation, but other kinds of use as well. Under this concept of "multiple use," national forests are managed to provide Americans with a wide variety of services and commodities, including lumber, cattle grazing, mineral products and recreation with and without vehicles. The national forests are managed by forest rangers with the US Forest Service (USFS) under the Department of Agriculture."
The point of saying that is this - the article tries to imply we gun owners are driving motor cycles around kids camping and shooting like a bunch of drunken cowboys.
The person who said this does not belong in a national forest.
“Every time in the woods, you feared for your life,” he said. “It was absolutely, completely out of hand.”
No, it was not out of hand, you were in the wrong place. National forests are for serious and experienced backcountry users. They know every minute there are dangers, including hunters and other firearm users, and you are on your own.
Are there people abusing the firearm usage rules and laws, yes. There were also 1,126 shooting warnings and citations issued. There are more shootings in Chicago alone this year and more murders in Chicago and D.C. than actual shootings in the forests.
You are much safer in a National Forest than Chicago.
|
|
|
Find
|
08-19-2015, 08:52 AM,
|
|
|
|
Posts: 2,382
Threads: 376
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation:
1
|
|
RE: Backcountry Shooters Acting Like the Occupy Wall Street Unclean
Posts: 2,382
Threads: 376
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation:
1
(08-19-2015, 08:34 AM)Dutz Wrote: You are much safer in a National Forest than Chicago.
I total agree. Here in Oregon you have a lot of back logging roads that can be used. When I read the article I get that they are trying to shed a negative light on the Gun community but in areas like what we have here we see it all the time. My son is Road Engineer for RFP (Roseburg Forest Products) and he sees this all through the property that they own. At the higher elevation not so much but if they have harvested and replanted then he will always find TV's, refers, toilets, cans and other material laying around all shot up. That is why they have now locked 90% of all their lands. Hunters don't like the gates but it keeps the forest areas, at least the ones they own clean. Also, Weyehauser, Seneca, and other smaller companies are doing the same.
(08-19-2015, 08:34 AM)Dutz Wrote: You are much safer in a National Forest than Chicago.
I total agree. Here in Oregon you have a lot of back logging roads that can be used. When I read the article I get that they are trying to shed a negative light on the Gun community but in areas like what we have here we see it all the time. My son is Road Engineer for RFP (Roseburg Forest Products) and he sees this all through the property that they own. At the higher elevation not so much but if they have harvested and replanted then he will always find TV's, refers, toilets, cans and other material laying around all shot up. That is why they have now locked 90% of all their lands. Hunters don't like the gates but it keeps the forest areas, at least the ones they own clean. Also, Weyehauser, Seneca, and other smaller companies are doing the same.
|
|
|
Find
|
08-19-2015, 09:26 AM,
|
|
|
|
Posts: 1,393
Threads: 79
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation:
2
|
|
RE: Backcountry Shooters Acting Like the Occupy Wall Street Unclean
Posts: 1,393
Threads: 79
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation:
2
People who leave garbage on private land (shot up or not) and people who enter private land (shooting or not) and people who shoot on private land (hunting or not) without the owner's permission have no more respect for property rights than a burglar entering my home. The issue addressed in the article is important.
However, the most surprising thing I found when I started shooting two years ago is that for every "gun toting fool" (regardless what his foolish actions are) there are 1000 gun owners who religiously follow and can recite the four rules of safely like they can the pledge of allegiance.
The article is directed at New Yorkers and intended to perpetuate the myth that it is the other way around - 1000 fools for 1 safe person.
And if we are talking about foolish acts, while on a backcountry trip in Glacier with some tree huggers, a helicopter flew over our heads. Two of the huggers started screaming obscenities, giving them the finger, and proceeded to moon them. I am generally not against a good, well deserved mooning, but I just looked them thinking, "seriously?"
However, the most surprising thing I found when I started shooting two years ago is that for every "gun toting fool" (regardless what his foolish actions are) there are 1000 gun owners who religiously follow and can recite the four rules of safely like they can the pledge of allegiance.
The article is directed at New Yorkers and intended to perpetuate the myth that it is the other way around - 1000 fools for 1 safe person.
And if we are talking about foolish acts, while on a backcountry trip in Glacier with some tree huggers, a helicopter flew over our heads. Two of the huggers started screaming obscenities, giving them the finger, and proceeded to moon them. I am generally not against a good, well deserved mooning, but I just looked them thinking, "seriously?"
|
|
|
Find
|
08-19-2015, 09:53 AM,
|
|
|
Posts: 607
Threads: 35
Joined: Jan 2015
Reputation:
0
|
|
RE: Backcountry Shooters Acting Like the Occupy Wall Street Unclean
Posts: 607
Threads: 35
Joined: Jan 2015
Reputation:
0
I bet the NY Times would be the first to defend illegal pot growers that are doing greater harm to the national forest with their growing methods than some recreational shooters are. If you haven't seen it try finding the episode of "10 Things You Didn't Know About..." on marijuana. These illegal growers are killing wildlife and polluting the water supply with pesticides that are banned for farm use. One ranger interviewed for the episode stated that one of the grow areas was discovered because somebody was reported to have disappeared in that area. During the search and rescue attempt is when the "field" was found and it had a street value of over $2 million. The toxicity levels of the soil after they harvest their "crop" is so bad that it can take 5 years for local flora to grow in that spot again. In the mean time, every time it rains those toxins are being washed into local streams.
|
|
|
Find
|
Board
Search
Member List
Calendar
Red Dot Arms
Help
