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External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
06-21-2014, 01:33 PM,
#1
External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?

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#1
With the exception of one, all of my handguns are without traditional "red you're dead" thumb safeties. That is how i have trained my whole life.

Im seeing many new shooters, and new concealed weapons carriers opting for weapons with external thumb safeties and i cant help but cringe when i think about the SHTF moment, when they need their weapon in that split second decision, and all they hear is a CLICK. How have you guys trained, and do you think an external safety is a pro or a con when selecting a carry weapon?
"If it bleeds, we can kill it."

Im seeing many new shooters, and new concealed weapons carriers opting for weapons with external thumb safeties and i cant help but cringe when i think about the SHTF moment, when they need their weapon in that split second decision, and all they hear is a CLICK. How have you guys trained, and do you think an external safety is a pro or a con when selecting a carry weapon?
"If it bleeds, we can kill it."
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06-21-2014, 09:03 PM,
#2
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#2
YEP, I agree with MMR226 100%.
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06-22-2014, 07:22 AM,
#3
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#3
I don't have my permit yet but i do have a shield which has the thumb safety on it. When i do rcv it my plan is to carry it and train with it off.
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06-22-2014, 10:30 AM,
#4
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#4
A safety on a gun is just a potential problem. If you dont train with it, you will not remember to do it when your adrenaline level skyrockets.
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

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06-23-2014, 04:16 PM,
#5
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#5
Personally I like my external safety on my SR9. It's a bit small but it's positioned so that it is very easy to sweep off during the draw. However, I do recognize the risks involved in not training with the safety. As a result, I make myself activate and deactivate the safety every single time I shoot. It's fairly automatic at this point, and I even find myself trying to sweep off non existent safeties when I shoot my dad's Glock or other guns without a thumb safety.

This is all personal preference of course, and I certainly recognize the benefits of a simple point and shoot handgun with no external complications. However, I do appreciate the extra level of comfort a manual safety provides. It's all a compromise however, and hopefully if the worst ever happens my practice will pay off.

This is all personal preference of course, and I certainly recognize the benefits of a simple point and shoot handgun with no external complications. However, I do appreciate the extra level of comfort a manual safety provides. It's all a compromise however, and hopefully if the worst ever happens my practice will pay off.
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06-23-2014, 05:11 PM,
#6
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?

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#6
(06-23-2014, 04:16 PM)bls Wrote: Personally I like my external safety on my SR9. It's a bit small but it's positioned so that it is very easy to sweep off during the draw. However, I do recognize the risks involved in not training with the safety. As a result, I make myself activate and deactivate the safety every single time I shoot. It's fairly automatic at this point, and I even find myself trying to sweep off non existent safeties when I shoot my dad's Glock or other guns without a thumb safety.

This is all personal preference of course, and I certainly recognize the benefits of a simple point and shoot handgun with no external complications. However, I do appreciate the extra level of comfort a manual safety provides. It's all a compromise however, and hopefully if the worst ever happens my practice will pay off.
Well said man!
"If it bleeds, we can kill it."
(06-23-2014, 04:16 PM)bls Wrote: Personally I like my external safety on my SR9. It's a bit small but it's positioned so that it is very easy to sweep off during the draw. However, I do recognize the risks involved in not training with the safety. As a result, I make myself activate and deactivate the safety every single time I shoot. It's fairly automatic at this point, and I even find myself trying to sweep off non existent safeties when I shoot my dad's Glock or other guns without a thumb safety.

This is all personal preference of course, and I certainly recognize the benefits of a simple point and shoot handgun with no external complications. However, I do appreciate the extra level of comfort a manual safety provides. It's all a compromise however, and hopefully if the worst ever happens my practice will pay off. Well said man!
"If it bleeds, we can kill it."
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06-23-2014, 06:33 PM,
#7
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#7
(06-23-2014, 04:16 PM)bls Wrote: Personally I like my external safety on my SR9. It's a bit small but it's positioned so that it is very easy to sweep off during the draw. However, I do recognize the risks involved in not training with the safety. As a result, I make myself activate and deactivate the safety every single time I shoot. It's fairly automatic at this point, and I even find myself trying to sweep off non existent safeties when I shoot my dad's Glock or other guns without a thumb safety.

This is all personal preference of course, and I certainly recognize the benefits of a simple point and shoot handgun with no external complications. However, I do appreciate the extra level of comfort a manual safety provides. It's all a compromise however, and hopefully if the worst ever happens my practice will pay off.

That is doing it the correct way. Most people don't train with the safety like that. I personally prefer not to have to take any unnecessary steps in the event that I ever did need to use it. Fine motor skills go out the window in high stress situations.
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

(06-23-2014, 04:16 PM)bls Wrote: Personally I like my external safety on my SR9. It's a bit small but it's positioned so that it is very easy to sweep off during the draw. However, I do recognize the risks involved in not training with the safety. As a result, I make myself activate and deactivate the safety every single time I shoot. It's fairly automatic at this point, and I even find myself trying to sweep off non existent safeties when I shoot my dad's Glock or other guns without a thumb safety.

This is all personal preference of course, and I certainly recognize the benefits of a simple point and shoot handgun with no external complications. However, I do appreciate the extra level of comfort a manual safety provides. It's all a compromise however, and hopefully if the worst ever happens my practice will pay off.
That is doing it the correct way. Most people don't train with the safety like that. I personally prefer not to have to take any unnecessary steps in the event that I ever did need to use it. Fine motor skills go out the window in high stress situations.
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

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07-06-2014, 01:00 PM,
#8
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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Overall, I tend to agree with the OP. The style of safety was the determining factor in my choice of XDs-9 (grip safety) over Shield (thumb safety) for my first CCW -- after shooting both and finding no discernible difference to me in how they felt and how well I shot with them. But when XDs turned out to be too big for me to conceal comfortably, sitting, I needed to go to a significantly smaller (mostly, shorter) firearm--I thought likely a .380. Then when I found a 9mm that really was small enough, fit my hand very well (particularly extended magazine) and that I shot as well as my XDs, I fell in love with it and decided I would just have to practice enough to make it an ingrained habit. I love my little Sig P938!
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09-29-2014, 12:01 PM,
#9
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#9
I have always preferred weapons with safeties. I have trained myself to clear the safety when I move my finger from the side to the trigger. I do this as second nature. But I certainly understand someone that chooses a weapon without a safety. You can choose not to use it, but I suggest, if you have one on the weapon you just learn to clear it when move your finger to the trigger, in case it is set to safe by accident.

Use of a safety is a personal choice. Many people really dislike them, and won't buy a carry weapon with one. I'm OK either way, but prefer the safety. But I'll admit I am old fashioned. Undecided

Use of a safety is a personal choice. Many people really dislike them, and won't buy a carry weapon with one. I'm OK either way, but prefer the safety. But I'll admit I am old fashioned. Undecided
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09-29-2014, 12:31 PM,
#10
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#10
I went with the XDs with the grip and trigger safety... I already know trying to accommodate one with a regular safety would take a lot of practice. I'm not opposed to it, but it would take a long time training before I trusted to bring it as a carry weapon. That being said I also agree with Ryan about preferring to have less steps in general. So unless I fall in love with a particular gun I'll probably be sticking to something like what I have.
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

— Luke 22:36, NIV
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

— Luke 22:36, NIV
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10-25-2014, 07:49 AM,
#11
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#11
As well as one trains on a constant basis with said gun that has an active safety, then there shouldn't be an issue. But with that said, most people do not train on that constant of a schedule and that safety will likely be a liability issue when the SHTF instance does come up...and that can end in a serious injury or even death of the person who decided to carry a gun and keep the safety on.

In my opinion, a safety shouldn't be on our carry firearms (with the sole exception being a 1911 style gun which is SAO and needs to be carried in condition 1) as it's just one more thing that needs be learned into muscle memory to prevent something really bad from happening. Just about any decent gun made nowadays has enough internal safety devices to prevent a negligent discharge or accident from happening so in my opinion an active safety is just a useless "feel good" device.

And for this reason, I won't carry a gun that has one equipped.

In my opinion, a safety shouldn't be on our carry firearms (with the sole exception being a 1911 style gun which is SAO and needs to be carried in condition 1) as it's just one more thing that needs be learned into muscle memory to prevent something really bad from happening. Just about any decent gun made nowadays has enough internal safety devices to prevent a negligent discharge or accident from happening so in my opinion an active safety is just a useless "feel good" device.

And for this reason, I won't carry a gun that has one equipped.
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10-25-2014, 10:37 AM,
#12
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#12
For a while the only gun I had was a 1911 and I got fairly quick drawing and flipping the safety in one motion, although that was all dry fire.

I think the key is not switching around. I started doing IDPA and have been to 3 matches (local ones at McHenry). It really revealed flaws in drawing, moving, and shooting. I have been using the 1911, but am switching to a full size XDM because my carry is an XDS and I want to keep the training consistent with the carry.

I think the key is not switching around. I started doing IDPA and have been to 3 matches (local ones at McHenry). It really revealed flaws in drawing, moving, and shooting. I have been using the 1911, but am switching to a full size XDM because my carry is an XDS and I want to keep the training consistent with the carry.
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10-25-2014, 12:18 PM,
#13
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#13
I'd say, if you have a firearm with a manual safety on it, TRAIN to turn it off when you move your finger to the trigger. Always assume that the safety moved to safe position. Some people train to flip the safety off when they draw.

If you hate manual safeties, then get a Glock, Springfield or a brand that offers a model without one. The NRA seems to dislike safeties as they always teach "Never to depend on one, as they fail". I'd love to see some statistics to back up that theory. And I don't mean like the Remington 700 rifles that had a design flaw, but and actual mechanical safety failure.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper

If you hate manual safeties, then get a Glock, Springfield or a brand that offers a model without one. The NRA seems to dislike safeties as they always teach "Never to depend on one, as they fail". I'd love to see some statistics to back up that theory. And I don't mean like the Remington 700 rifles that had a design flaw, but and actual mechanical safety failure.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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12-16-2014, 07:18 PM,
#14
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#14
When carrying my LC9 I make sure the safety is disabled before leaving the house.
My other carry gun has no external safety.
My other carry gun has no external safety.
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12-16-2014, 10:04 PM,
#15
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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(10-25-2014, 12:18 PM)BelieveIn308 Wrote: I'd say, if you have a firearm with a manual safety on it, TRAIN to turn it off when you move your finger to the trigger. Always assume that the safety moved to safe position. Some people train to flip the safety off when they draw.

If you hate manual safeties, then get a Glock, Springfield or a brand that offers a model without one. The NRA seems to dislike safeties as they always teach "Never to depend on one, as they fail". I'd love to see some statistics to back up that theory. And I don't mean like the Remington 700 rifles that had a design flaw, but and actual mechanical safety failure.

Well, i think the reason they say that is to make sure some moron doesn't point a gun at someone and think "oh, the safety is on, so let me pull the trigger" I've heard people, oh don't worry the safety is on. I don't give a *****....a loaded gun is loaded, safety on or not.

The NRA has it's 3 rules, pointed in a safe direction, finger off the trigger, and only loaded when it's needed. Red Dot Arms has it's rule above all those....Treat every gun as a loaded gun.

Oh, and yeah, I'm not big on manual safeties, but I do love the grip safety on my Springfield.
(10-25-2014, 12:18 PM)BelieveIn308 Wrote: I'd say, if you have a firearm with a manual safety on it, TRAIN to turn it off when you move your finger to the trigger. Always assume that the safety moved to safe position. Some people train to flip the safety off when they draw.

If you hate manual safeties, then get a Glock, Springfield or a brand that offers a model without one. The NRA seems to dislike safeties as they always teach "Never to depend on one, as they fail". I'd love to see some statistics to back up that theory. And I don't mean like the Remington 700 rifles that had a design flaw, but and actual mechanical safety failure.
Well, i think the reason they say that is to make sure some moron doesn't point a gun at someone and think "oh, the safety is on, so let me pull the trigger" I've heard people, oh don't worry the safety is on. I don't give a *****....a loaded gun is loaded, safety on or not.

The NRA has it's 3 rules, pointed in a safe direction, finger off the trigger, and only loaded when it's needed. Red Dot Arms has it's rule above all those....Treat every gun as a loaded gun.

Oh, and yeah, I'm not big on manual safeties, but I do love the grip safety on my Springfield.
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12-17-2014, 08:29 PM,
#16
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#16
I agree it is a personal choice. If you choose to use the safety then you must practice with it a lot. In my profession I have been in very stressful situations and through my training and continued practice it all becomes second nature. Granted I have never been in a shooting situation but when it hits the fan your basic instinct will be to repeat the basics you have trained on.
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12-17-2014, 09:01 PM,
#17
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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Like I always say....practice makes permanent.
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12-17-2014, 09:20 PM,
#18
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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(12-16-2014, 10:04 PM)mikereddot Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 12:18 PM)BelieveIn308 Wrote: I'd say, if you have a firearm with a manual safety on it, TRAIN to turn it off when you move your finger to the trigger. Always assume that the safety moved to safe position. Some people train to flip the safety off when they draw.

If you hate manual safeties, then get a Glock, Springfield or a brand that offers a model without one. The NRA seems to dislike safeties as they always teach "Never to depend on one, as they fail". I'd love to see some statistics to back up that theory. And I don't mean like the Remington 700 rifles that had a design flaw, but and actual mechanical safety failure.

Well, i think the reason they say that is to make sure some moron doesn't point a gun at someone and think "oh, the safety is on, so let me pull the trigger" I've heard people, oh don't worry the safety is on. I don't give a *****....a loaded gun is loaded, safety on or not.

The NRA has it's 3 rules, pointed in a safe direction, finger off the trigger, and only loaded when it's needed. Red Dot Arms has it's rule above all those....Treat every gun as a loaded gun.

Oh, and yeah, I'm not big on manual safeties, but I do love the grip safety on my Springfield.

I have to disagree with a defensive gun not being loaded until
I need it. I think it goes ..an empty gun or one not in the chamber makes for a good "nothing" or something like that. Confused
. Hunting arms are entirely a different story. Don't load it until your in the field.
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(12-16-2014, 10:04 PM)mikereddot Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 12:18 PM)BelieveIn308 Wrote: I'd say, if you have a firearm with a manual safety on it, TRAIN to turn it off when you move your finger to the trigger. Always assume that the safety moved to safe position. Some people train to flip the safety off when they draw.

If you hate manual safeties, then get a Glock, Springfield or a brand that offers a model without one. The NRA seems to dislike safeties as they always teach "Never to depend on one, as they fail". I'd love to see some statistics to back up that theory. And I don't mean like the Remington 700 rifles that had a design flaw, but and actual mechanical safety failure.

Well, i think the reason they say that is to make sure some moron doesn't point a gun at someone and think "oh, the safety is on, so let me pull the trigger" I've heard people, oh don't worry the safety is on. I don't give a *****....a loaded gun is loaded, safety on or not.

The NRA has it's 3 rules, pointed in a safe direction, finger off the trigger, and only loaded when it's needed. Red Dot Arms has it's rule above all those....Treat every gun as a loaded gun.

Oh, and yeah, I'm not big on manual safeties, but I do love the grip safety on my Springfield.
I have to disagree with a defensive gun not being loaded until
I need it. I think it goes ..an empty gun or one not in the chamber makes for a good "nothing" or something like that. Confused
. Hunting arms are entirely a different story. Don't load it until your in the field.
Click Here ~~~~>Glock Often Imitated....Never Duplicated
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12-17-2014, 09:25 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-17-2014, 09:26 PM by Brian S.)
#19
RE: External safeties on carry weapons. Safe or sorry?
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#19
I only have one handgun that has an external safety, a Beretta 21A .22LR. I nicknamed it my last chance gun. Not because of the safety, just the size.
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Click Here ~~~~>Glock Often Imitated....Never Duplicated
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