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How about Libertarianism?
03-11-2016, 04:00 PM
Post: #1
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Photo How about Libertarianism?
Here's a neat and short article about the difference between Hillary and Sanders. Too bad Bernie is anti-gun, and too far left, or I'd vote for him.

Libertarian Future Article

I think I'm leaning towards this party. Most of their "platform" aligns with my independent / moderate point of view.

Yeah...they're gonna lose, but so far it would be far worse on my conscience than voting for any of the buffoons on the Republican stage....except for Kasich. I'm looking at him also right now as one of the only sane people there.
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03-11-2016, 07:07 PM
Post: #2
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
(03-11-2016 04:00 PM)ssphoto Wrote:  Here's a neat and short article about the difference between Hillary and Sanders. Too bad Bernie is anti-gun, and too far left, or I'd vote for him.

Libertarian Future Article

I think I'm leaning towards this party. Most of their "platform" aligns with my independent / moderate point of view.

Yeah...they're gonna lose, but so far it would be far worse on my conscience than voting for any of the buffoons on the Republican stage....except for Kasich. I'm looking at him also right now as one of the only sane people there.

Kasich is milk toast, not a leader. I could never vote for him. Rubio is not ready.
The Libertarian Party is in line with my beliefs. I could vote for Cruz or Trump. Cruz is a true Constitutionalist, Trump would do what HE thinks is best for America. Never the criminal Hillary, or the Marxist Bernie (although at least Bernie is honest).

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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03-12-2016, 08:44 AM
Post: #3
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
I am not sure what you would call me. (<<insert joke here>>).

I am more of a social conservative in my personal life, but have changed away from that regarding public policy.

I like something about every candidate, except Hillary. I agree with BelieveIn308's assessment.

Honesty is all you can say good about Bernie. His ideas are wrong headed and based on no reality. The man has never even held a job in his life, let alone managed a business. He has no clue whatsoever how his policies would effect business or job creators. If he were president and got everything he wanted we would turn into Greece before his first term was up, and then the entire world would turn into Greece.

If he gets the nomination he would win 3-6 states total in the general election no matter who the republicans put up. No serious analyst, including all democratic analysts, believe otherwise. If they say so they are lying.

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03-12-2016, 09:01 AM
Post: #4
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
Bernie is just a plain communist, and like others have said completely open and honest about it. As president, he would make Obama look like Washington. Hillary, well what can be said, just a plain nasty person. Although Kasich did some good things as Governor he's not going to get the nomination, neither will Rubio. That leaves Trump and Cruz. Of the two, I believe Cruz is superior given his record. Are either perfect?, of course not. But either is infinitely better that Hillary of Bernie, and I will vote for whoever is the Republican candidate. I understand people have principles and want to vote third party, but a third party vote is a vote for Hillary. Please don't vote third party...it will result in Hillary winning.
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03-12-2016, 02:21 PM
Post: #5
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
(03-12-2016 09:01 AM)British Gunner Wrote:  Bernie is just a plain communist, and like others have said completely open and honest about it. As president, he would make Obama look like Washington. Hillary, well what can be said, just a plain nasty person. Although Kasich did some good things as Governor he's not going to get the nomination, neither will Rubio. That leaves Trump and Cruz. Of the two, I believe Cruz is superior given his record. Are either perfect?, of course not. But either is infinitely better that Hillary of Bernie, and I will vote for whoever is the Republican candidate. I understand people have principles and want to vote third party, but a third party vote is a vote for Hillary. Please don't vote third party...it will result in Hillary winning.

I agree with most of this but as of right now I'm on the Trump bandwagon. By the time the WV primary rolls around everything will already be decided and I'll vote for whoever wins between Trump and Cruz in November. As I've said before, I'd love to see a Trump/Cruz or Cruz/Trump ticket.
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03-16-2016, 04:54 PM
Post: #6
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
Depressing so much I don't want to vote...but I say that every voting cycle. If Trump gets nominated, I'll really be temped to vote Libertarian, despite the risk of Hillary winning. In good conscience it would be hard to vote for Trump, but I'll wait to see if he tones down his crap when it comes time for the debates later this year.
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03-16-2016, 08:31 PM
Post: #7
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
I would never vote for a libertarian. I find them almost as repulsive as I do progressives.
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03-17-2016, 03:56 AM
Post: #8
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
I find Libertarians to be strict Constitutionalists.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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03-17-2016, 07:08 AM
Post: #9
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
Hillary becoming president is the worse possible scenario, even Bernie would be better.

Trump becoming president is the best thing for the republican party, it would smash the power structure. I have no idea if it would be good for the country, but I know Hillary would not be.

I honestly thing what Obama has done is irreparable, but if it can be fixed, it will not be with Hillary as president or the current republican leaders in power.

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03-17-2016, 05:07 PM
Post: #10
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
(03-17-2016 03:56 AM)BelieveIn308 Wrote:  I find Libertarians to be strict Constitutionalists.

I don't at all. They claim that they are but a lot of them believe in things that are not Constitutional at all. I personally know a few from the WV version of the party that take things that Washington wrote in his farewell or Jefferson wrote in a letter and claim that they're in the Constitution. At least Washington presided over the convention but Jefferson had no input and wasn't even in the country at the time, he was in France. I also don't agree with the ones that preach about gay rights and claim that the Constitution protects gay marriage. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Gay marriage was illegal at the time the constitution was written, as was engaging in that behavior, and remained so afterwards. They say that the Constitution should give the same protections to gay marriage as it does to hetero marriage. They forget that marriage isn't mentioned in the constitution and so is the purview of the states. One state didn't have to recognize a marriage from any other state until this gay marriage nonsense. I have also seen libertarians who have sided with the "separation of church and state" crowd. There is nothing in the constitution that states that religion has to be kept out of the government. The founders fell back on religious teaching when drafting the Constitution. The idea of legislative representation based on population comes from Exodus 18:21, which states that government officials should be chosen “...over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens," as an example. In fact, the idea was to keep government out of religion but not the other way around. The libertarian idea that narcotics use should be legalized is also not constitutionally based. These are just some of the examples of why I don't side with libertarians.
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03-19-2016, 11:09 PM
Post: #11
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
(03-17-2016 05:07 PM)rwhite135 Wrote:  The libertarian idea that narcotics use should be legalized is also not constitutionally based.

Huh? What amendment says "thou shall not smoke pot"??

Drug use should be left to the states. If not in the first 9 amendments , then it 10th amendment kicks in.

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03-20-2016, 02:48 AM
Post: #12
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
The United States Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that federal laws banning all forms of marijuana usage are constitutional. Before anyone tries to make the claim that "the founders grew hemp and that's marijuana," that is a fallacy started by the pro-pot crowd. Hemp is related to marijuana but it is not the same plant. If one were to try to smoke hemp they would not get high but they would get a terrible headache and burning in the lungs. I am completely against legalization.
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03-20-2016, 08:08 AM
Post: #13
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
"The United States Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that federal laws banning all forms of marijuana usage are constitutional."

I am not commenting on the issue of drugs here. I am commenting on the SCOTUS ruling.

I am not so convinced anymore that this is a valid argument. I know the system we have, but as Scalia said in several ways, we no longer have a SCOTUS.

For 190 years prayer in school was constitutional then one morning we woke up and it was not without one word changed in the Constitution. Bogus crap.

There are fears if Obama gets his nominee Heller will be overturned. Huh? The decision was constitutional a week ago and suddenly is not. Bogus crap.

The founding fathers were brilliant in setting up a mechanism for changing the Constitution, over the past 50 years we have acted like stupid little grade school kids in how we ignore that and make up what is and is not constitutional on political whims.

Thanks for listening, you may now resume to your regularly scheduled argument. Smile

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03-21-2016, 12:33 AM
Post: #14
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
The Court's rulings on marijuana have been very consistent for decades now. This isn't one of those rulings that have changed based on the Court's membership. Both liberal and conservative controlled Courts have ruled against its usage and upheld federal bans.
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03-21-2016, 05:47 PM
Post: #15
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
My opinion on Pot laws is similar to my opinion on Liquor laws. Criminalizing Pot and filling our jails with people at 50K a crack is insane. We should make the legal pot smoking age 21. We should tax it, like liquor and be done with it. First off the laws are widely ignored much like Prohibition (democrat idea). We have the same culture of violence with the trade. Legalize it and grow it here. I think the first statistics from Colorado show violent crime down a lot, and the cost of keeping people in jail down over 30%.

So I think I agree with the libertarian viewpoint. End the law and save the taxpayers a fortune. Let it be legal, regulated and taxed. And most of all end the pot trade from Mexico. Violent thugs that they are. We need to build Mr. Trump's wall, and DEPORT every single illegal we find. I am thinking a reward, $500 for each on, and if need be Dead or Alive.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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03-22-2016, 01:30 PM
Post: #16
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
My stance on Gay Marriage: at most the States should make it legal or not, but really, it's a human choice. If the Church or whatever organization chooses to not to recognize it, that's their affair as well as the couple, but as far as the government is concerned.....it really should simply be viewed as a legal bond; nothing more.

Pot...well, I've never....but whether it's alcohol, weed or whatever, let it be legal, BUT....if you're caught under the influence operating a vehicle, then the fines/penaltes are HUGE. The paradox from this "logic" is that we're trying to reduce jail sentences by legalizing it, but you know damn well most people who use can be irresponsible, therefore we could see more in jail?

Immigration: enforce the laws in the books now; few exceptions. Plain and simple you'd think. Take away the incentive for them to come by closing down companies that hire them as illegal. I look at Europe and cringe at the huge problems they now have being so welcoming; they now have decades of immigration issues beyond what they used to have. When I lived in Germany in the 70s, the immigrants were Turkish coming to work. They appear to have adapted for the most part. But that was a relatively moderate influx; now it's millions all at once!
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03-22-2016, 02:48 PM
Post: #17
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
The thing that most people forget is the pendulums swing both ways. For years the Judeo-Christian teachings dominated in our culture and they translated into laws such as prohibition, gay marriage, etc.

We are now finding our culture swinging the other way and strong efforts are being put forth to make things Christians do illegal.

Libertarians need to understand this pendulum concept as well. True libertarians believe you should be able to live your life any way you choose as long as you are hurting someone else's.

A Christian who chooses to teach his children that homosexuality is a sin (which of course, the Bible does say) is having his rights infringed by society approving gay marriage through licensing and thus "teaching" the children something else. A gay couple who chooses to marry is having their rights infringed by being asked to go to a different baker for their cake when that baker says it is against his beliefs.

Both are offensive to the other, but neither is truly hurting the other. A true libertarian would side with both of them. Let the criteria be genuine damage, and not offense.

When we come to a place (as we are) when laws and public policy are based on who is offended we have walked as far away from libertarianism as we can get.

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03-22-2016, 08:19 PM
Post: #18
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
I think we are also forgetting the 10th Amendment in the Bill of Rights...

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This does not give Congress or the President the power to define marriage. It does not the Federal government to power to make abortion legal by a court decision. So much of our freedoms have been eroded by run away courts.

We need to agree to abide by the Constitution even when the ideas an abomination in our views. Like we need to protect speech we disagree with.

Freedom and Liberty are under attack by the Left, that would use force to rob people to support their parasitic supporters. It is time to read Atlas Shrugged again.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Col. Jeff Cooper
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03-23-2016, 09:04 AM
Post: #19
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
I am hearing more and more from people who refuse to vote this election. Trump has an ego larger than the Grand Canyon, Hillary needs to be shot and quartered, Bernie is a BAFOON, and Cruz...well maybe the lesser of the four evils. Kasich will never be presidential material and he could never beat Billary.

My son said he was not going to vote and I told him that this time, that was the wrong decision. Sometimes even the wrong person on the right side is better that the wrong person on the wrong side. This is one nasty election cycle, but we need to get rid of O. Our country looks like joke overseas and Trump is not helping.
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03-23-2016, 09:22 AM
Post: #20
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RE: How about Libertarianism?
Just a little more info:
http://www.wnd.com/2016/03/shocking-trut...tic-party/

But most of you already know this.
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